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Arlen Grossman, back to what Paul Ryan was saying, where he said health care is not a government granted right, Leftist political types only want “free” health care so they can mooch off of the labor of these medical professionals. They also speak of a right to that so they can justify the idea that they can relieve themselves of any guilt regarding their taking advantage of the labor of other people. Ever since the Progressive era, despite the positive sounding nature of progress, we have gone downhill. Leftist political types produce propaganda and want to have a collectivist mentality, with no room for different opinions. Here is an example of a medical condition which affects many people: Epilepsy. If anti-convulsant drug prices are paid for by the government, government could discriminate as to which medications patients who have Epilepsy can receive. How would you feel if you knew someone who has that condition and they could not get the medication they need because government raises the price of it? Back to the video, any person who says that we should have a right to health care (which we don’t) and advocates policies that price us out of plans that we want to purchase is a hypocrite. People on the right believe in being charitable with their own resources, while people on the Left believe in being charitable with the resources of other people.
You don’t give up, do you, Jeffrey? We’ve gone over and over on this issue and your viewpoint will never change. Nor mine. It comes down to a matter of values, and we have different values and see the world very differently. Let’s let this subject rest.
Regarding your June 11 post, Jeffrey: We are essentially going over the same issues and will never change each other’s minds. Still, I will comment. I reject that using government services will make people dependent on the government. That may be true for a few, but I don’t think it applies to most people. Government service to me is a helpful thing that helps us run a civilized society. It can always be improved, but ill is better than having greedy capitalists bleeding citizens in order to maximize profits. You only end up with giants corporations, like insurance companies, trying to make money off ordinary citizens while giving the least possible services, as we have with our current health care model. Only the government stands in the way of greedy corporations ripping off ordinary people. That said, we must always make sure the government is not corrupt, just as we must do the same for big corporations.
Arlen Grossman, the reason people choose to pursue medical degrees is because they seem to believe that it is their calling. My linking the video was deliberate. The guy says that government is better at paying for our health care than we are. Near the opening of the video, Paul Ryan was asked if health care is a right or a privilege. When Paul Ryan said, “Not from the government,” he was saying that we should not give government power over our lives to make decisions that we should be able to make on our own that govern our health. In one of the comments a person asked, “Why do you feel like you have a right to someone’s labor”? A following commenter said that the guy who presented the video was taking Paul Ryan’s comment out of context, pointing out that Paul Ryan was actually implying that government should not be able to tell us what kind of health care we can have. Making an automatic leap from saying that health care is not a right from the government is equivalent to saying that it is not a right at all is fundamentally dishonest. The guy in the video was oversimplifying what Paul Ryan said, making himself look like a dumb-shit. I also came across a comment where a person said that we do not have the right to another person’s labor or property, so in that context health care is not a right. Here are a few questions that I have for your consideration: 1: Why should our tax dollars subsidize drug addicts on welfare when they consciously choose to fuck their minds up with this shit? 2: If Paul Ryan had said that government had no right to dictate what medical treatment you can have, would this not destroy the credibility of the idiot who was presenting this video? Also, this guy uses appeal to emotion only to back up his claims, not balancing it with logic. 3: Why should we be forced to subsidize health care for people who cross over the border illegally from Mexico when they should get their shit in order instead of freeloading off of the United States, so as to get hospital visitations without paying for them?
As of the video that I linked, the guy who presents the video is clearly not credible. He only says that health care is a right so he and other people like him can feel good about taking advantage of the labor of other people without having to pay a penny for it. When Paul Ryan said that health care is not a right from the government, he was saying that government had no legitimate jurisdiction to impose a law that mandates one system upon a whole nation. So, health care is not a right. Health care is a commodity, a good and service. For the record, if government provides this for free, government can then take it away. These politicians who say that health care is a right want to price people out of the insurance plans that they want to purchase so as to guarantee that they will stay in perpetual dependence on the government, basically making the politicians who say that health care is a right out to be hypocrites.
We’ve gone back and forth on this many times, Jeffrey. In my opinion, if you truly cared about people you would not want them to go without health care, even if they lack money,
Everyone’s access to health care trumps libertarian ideology.
Arlen Grossman, if my money was not being used to fund abortion on demand, a policy that many Leftist political types condone, I would not give a damn about what other health care initiatives are undertaken that benefits us all. With that video I linked, near the end of it, the guy called Paul Ryan a liar, a weasel and said that what he was saying is wrong. The guy in the video is ignorant of the fact that someone will have to pay the medical bills, either through an insurance policy or out of pocket.
I looked at the video you are referring to, Jeffrey, and I have no problem with it. Sure, someone will have to pay the medical bills. Better it be the government (who can do it more efficiently) than insurance companies (who work to avoid paying for health care). Think about it, why are all the other developed countries not willing to imitate our health care system? Because it costs more, is less efficient, and doesn’t cover everyone.
Arlen Grossman, if my tax dollars went to fund initiatives like helping people who have degenerative neurological conditions, as well as other things, excluding paying for women to get abortions on demand because they refuse to have the necessary protections in place when having sex with male counterparts, I would not have an issue with that personally. Another issue is that if you give government too much power over our lives, as Paul Ryan correctly noted, we will always be kept in perpetual dependency upon the government. Why do you want to be kept in perpetual dependency? Also, health care is a commodity, not a right. So, basically, the guy in the video is the real liar, not Paul Ryan. Can you deny the fact that people who bitch about health care being a right and yet want to price people out of the insurance coverage that they want to buy are hypocrites by definition? Here is an example of a medical condition that affects a lot of people: Epilepsy, which needs treatment through anticonvulsant drugs. If government is put in charge of paying for these medications, there might be discrimination against people with one form of the condition over another, making one medication more expensive than the other.
In the Constitution there is a phrase “promote the general welfare.” I believe healthcare is a right in a civilized country. American citizens should not have to worry they will go bankrupt because they couldn’t afford their medical bills.
I suspect you and I will never agree about this.
Arlen Grossman, Margaret Thatcher described Socialism as a system where you run out of other people’s money. Socialism is only appealing to those who don’t want to pay for it.
I imagine you may have heard this: the difference between capitalism and socialism is that in socialism man exploits man. In capitalism, it’s the other way around.”
Arlen Grossman, that is something I had not heard.
Who said “free” healthcare?” I support universal (single-payer) government-sponsored health care.
Arlen Grossman, government does not pay for shit. The payments come from we the people, particularly by force of law.
My view is that in a civilized country, everyone should have a right to healthcare. My view is shared by every other developed nation.
Arlen Grossman, people who say that healthcare is not a right from the government are not saying that it is not a right at all. This is one thing that Leftist idiots (pardon the redundant statement) do not understand. Here is a video for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaks8Bzv-j4 The dumb-shit who is presenting the video clearly did not listen to what Paul Ryan was saying. He titled his video Paul Ryan: Healthcare Isn’t A Right. What he omitted was the latter part of Paul Ryan’s statement, where Paul Ryan said that it was not a government granted right. If he had said it was a human right, the guy who presented the video would have had no credibility with his distorted representation of Paul Ryan’s statement. Paul Ryan said healthcare is not a government granted right. If it was a government granted right, then government can give it or take it on a whim.
So if healthcare is a human right, who, if not the government, will ensure that right? How can somebody with limited means afford medical care in this country, where medical costs skyrocket every year?
Did you ever notice, Jeffrey, that while we argue about whether we could learn from other countries, those other countries have no interest in our healthcare system? The answer is obvious: who would want a system in which we spend more than anybody else and get the least positive results and the most uninsured citizens?
Arlen Grossman, let me pose a few questions for you: 1: If healthcare is a right, why should someone get medical care and not be required to pay for it? 2: Since saying that something is not a right from the government is not the same as saying that it is not a right at all, why do those Leftist idiots make the automatic leap of saying that if something is not a right from the government, that it is not a right period? 3: Since these people who go to medical school and have bills that they need money to pay the bills with, why should healthcare be free? Government is telling us what kind of healthcare we can have. We should have the free market and competition to help determine that.
Somehow it works in every other developed country. Not perfectly, of course, but more people are covered and don’t go bankrupt over medical bills. Medicare for all would save a lot of money that now goes to insurance companies (why do we need insurance companies for healthcare anyway?). By the way, people with enough money can always buy better medical care if they choose.
Arlen Grossman, free healthcare is an oxymoron. Unless you have a business model where you buy one item and get one item free, free stuff otherwise is not truly free.
Arlen Grossman, healthcare is not a right. It is a good and service.
Arlen Grossman, the “right” to healthcare is absurd. All Leftists want is free shit that they want other people to pay for.
Most people want government, Jeffrey. The just don’t like paying for it. It’s human nature.
Arlen Grossman, so there is no misunderstanding, I am not an anarchist. Quite the opposite, actually. What I would be for is a government that is strictly confined to limitations spelled out under the U.S. Constitution.
Sounds like you are a strict constructionist, which is not something I agree with. The Constitution was written over 200 years ago, and conditions have changed radically since then. The right to bear arms is a perfect example. Our founders could not have envisioned the kind of weapons we have now. If they could know, I believe they would have written exceptions into the Second Amendment.
Arlen Grossman, if our Founding Fathers knew of what was going on, from the Progressive era to the present, I can imagine that they would loudly speak out against all of it. Before the 16th Amendment (which was never properly ratified) was enacted, either no tax on income was present or it was temporary.
The problem is the the Leftist political types want goods and services that they don’t want to pay for themselves. Healthcare is not a right. It is a commodity. People who say that healthcare is not a right are saying that government does not have the right to tell you what kind of healthcare you can have.
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